El post de la mierda... y la higiene

Vaya toda la vida pensando que es por el Ph del agua (en conjunción con el cloro) y ahora viene uno a decir que es por el sudor.... pos vale. Y no se en que piscinas se baña este doctor para afirmar que todas están meadas :?
 
Qué chorrada de estudio por favor. La concentración de sudor y orina en una piscina tiene que estar al nivel magufo/omeopático.


Enviado con dos pelotas desde una Olivetti
 
No me seáis vagos opinadores y pinchad en los subenlaces sucesivos del primer artículo:

Por qué es peligroso orinarse en la piscina (además de una cochinada)
EL HUFFINGTON POST
29/03/2014
Los investigadores, que han publicado los resultados de sus experimentos en Environmental Science & Technology, la revista de la Sociedad Americana de Química, señalan que el 93% del ácido úrico presente en las piscina procede del pis. Cada vez que uno se orina, deja en el agua entre 27 ml y 217 ml de líquido amarillo de media.

Jing Li, de la Universidad Agraria de China, y Ernest Blatchley, de la Universidad de Perdue (EEUU) tomaron muestras de varias piscinas, tanto abiertas como cubiertas, de Beijing, la capital de China. Comprobaron que había cantidades significativas de cloruro de cianógeno (CNCl) y de tricloramina o tricloruro de nitrógeno (NCl3). Se trata de dos compuestos químicos volátiles que son un subproducto de la interacción entre el cloro y la orina.
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Chemical Irritants (Chloramines) & Indoor Pool Air Quality
CDC
New research indicates that these symptoms may be an indication of poor water and indoor air quality at the pool caused by a build-up of irritants, known as chloramines, in the water and air.

Irritants in the air at swimming pools are usually the combined chlorine by-products of disinfection. These by-products are the result of chlorine binding with sweat, urine, and other waste from swimmers. As the concentration of by-products in the water increases, they move into the surrounding air as well. Breathing air loaded with irritants can cause a variety of symptoms depending on the concentration of irritants in the air and amount of time the air is breathed. The symptoms of irritant exposure in the air can range from mild symptoms, such as coughing, to severe symptoms, such as wheezing or aggravating asthma (1-5). It is also known that routine breathing of irritants may increase sensitivity to other types of irritants such as fungi and bacteria.
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For more information on the topic:
  1. Respiratory and Ocular Symptoms Among Employees of a Hotel Indoor Waterpark Resort --- Ohio, 2007. MMWR, February 6, 2009; 58(4):81-85. Available at www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5804a3.htm
  2. Ocular and Respiratory Illness Associated with an Indoor Swimming Pool --- Nebraska, 2006. MMWR, September 14, 2007; 56(36):929-932. Available at www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5636a1.htm
  3. Bowen A, Kile J, Austin C, Otto C, Blount B, Kazerouni N, Wong H-N, Mainzer H, Mott J, Beach MJ, Fry AM. Outbreaks of short-incubation illness following exposure to indoor swimming pools. Environmental Health Perspectives, 2007; 115: 267-271.
  4. Emanuel BP. The Relationship Between Pool Water Quality and Ventilation. Environmental Health, 1998; 2: 17-20.
  5. Ratner J, Griffiths T. Exercise-Induced Asthma and Indoor Swimming Pools. Parks and Recreation. 1995; 7: 46-51.
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Google: pool smell

Google: olor piscina


Chloramines: Understanding “Pool Smell”
American Chemistry Council
July 2006
A whiff of pool water - often described as the smell of chlorine -can stir happy thoughts of summer. If strong enough, however, "pool smell" can signify a source of irritation to the eyes, lungs and skin of swimmers.

Pool smell is due, not to chlorine, but to chloramines, chemical compounds that build up in pool water when it is improperly treated.
Chloramines result from the combination of two ingredients: (a) chlorine disinfectants and (b) perspiration, oils and urine that enter pools on the bodies of swimmers.
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Swimming pool sanitation
Wikipedia
Contaminants introduced by swimmers can dramatically influence the operation of indoor and outdoor swimming pools. Sources include micro-organisms from infected swimmers and body oils including sweat, cosmetics, suntan lotion, urine, saliva and fecal matter. In addition, the interaction between disinfectants and pool water contaminants can produce a mixture of chloramines and other disinfection by-products.

Pathogenic contaminants are of greatest concern in swimming pools as they have been associated with numerous recreational water illnesses (RWIs).[5] Public health pathogens can be present in swimming pools as viruses, bacteria, protozoa and fungi. Diarrhea is the most commonly reported illness associated with pathogenic contaminants, while other diseases associated with untreated pools are Cryptosporidiosis and Giardiasis.[6][7] Other illnesses commonly occurring in poorly maintained swimming pools include otitis externa, commonly called swimmers ear, skin rashes and respiratory infections.

The journal Environmental Science & Technology reported that sweat and urine react with chlorine and produce trichloramine and cyanogen chloride, two chemicals dangerous to human health. [1]
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Yo no me meo en las piscinas porque dicen que sale una mancha verde a tu alrededor. Claro que eso debe ser leyenda urbana. Porque en las que yo lo hago nunca me ha salido dicha mancha. :cuniao:P
 
Pero vamos a ver, mearse en una piscina es una guarrada y por lógica debe de tocar bastante la "salubridad" de la misma. En una piscina se suda, efectivamente, por la actividad física. Pero la concentración necesaria para ello es altísima, afirmar que la totalidad de las piscinas están meadas en tal cantidad que el cloro reacciona es una magufada enorme tal y como ha dicho Dandreemex. Es la concentración de cloro y otros químicos que hacen que el PH del agua sea mas o menos ácido lo que te enrojece los ojos.
 
Pero es que no parece una ocurrencia de uno o unos pocos.

Como se puede comprobar investigando un poco por internet es que el consenso científico y técnico dice que una piscina olorosa es una piscina cuya salubridad está comprometida porque el cloro ha reaccionado con distintas sustancias orgánicas provenientes sobre todo de los bañistas, formando cloraminas muy irritantes y volátiles pero sin capacidad desinfectante. Y que una piscina bien clorada prácticamente no huele.

La magufada, por tanto, sería creer que el olor de las piscinas es por el cloro, por su exceso, o que una piscina olorosa es una piscina bien desinfectada.

Y se dice que la culpa no la tiene solo la orina, que también, sino el sudor, uno de cuyos componentes principales es la urea, como de la orina, la grasa cutánea, la saliva...

Si una persona en una hora puede expeler un mínimo de 100 o 200 ml de sudor sin hacer ningún esfuerzo, y entre 2 y 4 litros haciendo un gran esfuerzo, 10 o 20 personas en una piscina mediana o grande, de hasta 2 millones de litros, aportarán unos cuantos litros de sudor, suficientes para estar en una proporción de 10−6 con el agua de la piscina. Nada que ver con una disolución homeopática, que puede superar la absurdez de 10−24 y llegar a los 10−400, como la de algunos preparados. 10−8 es la concentración de arsénico admitida en el agua del grifo.

Además, lo lógico es suponer que estas sustancias orgánicas tiendan a flotar en el agua, con lo que solo reaccionarían con una porción mucho menor del agua de la piscina, y su paso al aire podría ser inmediato.

En cuanto a los que se orinan en la piscina, teniendo en cuenta que la mayoría de la gente es más bien haragana y guarra, sobre todo cuando nadie les ve, seguro que son algunos más de los que nos imaginamos. Si hasta Michael Phelps y Ryan Lochte lo admiten...
 
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Harry atribuir el escozor de ojos a la concentración de sustancias irritantes en el agua me parece una afirmación arriesgada. Primero porque ya de por si el cloro es un agente bastante irritante (es un poderoso oxidante, creo que eso lo sabemos todos). Pero vayamos a las cifras. Una persona puede perder gran cantidad de líquidos durante un gran esfuerzo, pero la mayor cantidad de agua la perdemos principalmente por la respiración, no por el sudor. Además dentro de una piscina apenas se suda ya que el agua de la piscina se encarga de refrigerar nuestro cuerpo. Por no hablar de que el 98% del sudor o de la orina es agua. con lo que la concentración es aún menor, 10-8 casi. Una concentración absurdamente baja de urea y otras sustancias.

Ahora vamos a otra cosa que sería mucho más razonable. ¿No es más lógico pensar que el cloro disuelto en el agua reacciona al contacto con nuestra piel y nuestros ojos, -donde la concentración será mucho mayor- y por eso escuecen?. Porque puedes encontrar trazas de cloraminas en el agua sí, pero éstas provendrán de haber reaccionado con la piel de la gente, no de que se hayan meado en la piscina.
 
CHLORINE

USA Swimming

The use of chlorine in swimming pools has saved thousands of lives throughout history. Even though chlorine has its dangers, they are far outweighed by the good the chemical does in killing bacteria that are harmful to people using pools. Recently there has been a lot of publicity about the hazards of chlorine. Unfortunately chlorine gets the blame for the harm caused by chloramines.

As an example, cars do not injure people, careless drivers injure people. Chlorine, properly regulated in a pool, does not put people at risk. Uninformed or careless pool operators put people at risk. The three main factors for safe pool water and good air quality are:
  • The chlorine level is kept between 1.5 and 2.5 with a pH between 7.3 and 7.5
  • No chloramines can be present in the pool water
  • The air circulation and dehumidification system must be functional and properly sized
If the air smells like chlorine, something is wrong. That acrid smell we sometimes associate with chlorine is usually an ammonia type compound. In the swimming pool industry the cause of this odor is chloramines. Chloramines (combined chlorine) occur when free chlorine combines with ammonia and other nitrogen compounds. This combining process can be accelerated by perspiration, urine, saliva, body oils, lotions and some shampoos, soaps, fertilizers, and many industrial or household cleaners.

The odor is created when water is not properly balanced. The odor intensifies when swimmers agitate the water, as in kicking or general warm-up swimming at a swim meet. The odor is worse at water level but can be extremely irritating at deck level or in the viewing area. Many times eye irritation and difficulty breathing accompany the odor. Sometimes the water may be hazy, but not always. Many times, the water will appear perfectly clear and the water test reads normal for free chlorine and pH.

This has become such a widespread problem in indoor pools that people are hospitalized each year. People with asthma are particularly at risk. Most of the problems occur in indoor pools. Outdoor pools have plenty of fresh air and sunshine (ultra violet light) so they are not as susceptible to the chloramines problem.

Chloramine formation can be accelerated by:
  • Swimmers not properly showering before entering pool.
  • Urination in the pool.
  • People doing a high level of aerobic activity and sweating in the water. (Note: everyone sweats when exercising in the water, the same as when they exercise on land.)
  • Residues from ammonia based cleaning products that are used on decks or in shower rooms and lavatories.
  • Residues from fertilizers used on landscaping (nitrogen based) that get tracked into building on shoes.
  • Poor air circulation and lack of fresh air introduction into the pool building.
  • Over use of “shocking” the pool for maintenance purposes.
  • Improper use of certain brands of chemicals not suitable for conditions specific to a geographic area.
  • Chloramines added to the municipal drinking water which is becoming common practice throughout the country.
What to do?

If chloramines are detected the most common solution is to shock the water. This means super-chlorination (break-point chlorination) which raises the level of chlorine in the pool to 10 parts per million. Normally dry chlorine powder or liquid chlorine is used to achieve super-chlorination. Recent studies show that many times this is not as effective as hyper-chlorination which is raising the level of chlorine to 20 parts per million.

These methods may temporarily burn out chloramines but will also necessitate the pool being closed for a few days. More than the normal amount of fresh air will also have to be introduced during this process.

Anecdotal evidence from people who have tried this solution seems to show that shocking the pool does not really help and can create a whole new set of problems.

Some success has been realized with a non-chlorine shock additive. Adding an oxidizer (potassium peroxy, monosulphate with brand names Oxykleer or Oxybrite) to the water converts the available chlorine to free chlorine.
If this process is done in the evening, swimmers can usually be in the pool the next morning. Fresh air introduction is still important. This is NOT a permanent solution.

Prevention:

Usually more than one thing needs to be changed to alleviate the problem.

The most common methods are:
  • Change the air circulation system to include more fresh air introduction and better turnover or a more efficient closed system of circulation and dehumidification.
  • Evaluate the type and brands of chemicals being used to treat the pool water for both chlorine and pH control.
  • Evaluate the pool filtration system to see if a filter that filters down to a more effective micron rating (like DE at 4 microns) would help.
  • Check the labels on all cleaning products to make sure they do not contain ammonia or are not nitrogen enriched.
  • Have your staff get the users of the pool to take showers before entering. This is usually required by state health codes but difficult to enforce.
Other preventive remedies:
  • Plan to install a medium pressure Ultra Violet (UV) water treatment system that cuts down on the amount of chlorine you have to use and also breaks down mono, di and tri chloramines. UV kills bacteria which also gives an extra layer of protection for swimmers.
  • Consider installing an activated carbon filter on the fill pipe from the city for water that fills the pool. This will help remove Chloramines from the source water.
We need to stop blaming chlorine for everything and start putting solutions into place. Bacteria in the water is extremely dangerous. Chlorine has been the solution for generations. Until a completely new method of water treatment is developed and field tested, it is still the best and safest method.
 
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The twelve most common myths in Pool-Water Chemistry

Professional Pool Operators of America

1. There’s too much chlorine in the pool; you can smell it!

No, no no; this familiar cry of the swim-team mom is the most common error of all relating to pool sanitation. The truth is, when you smell it, that’s not chlorine! There’s been too little chlorine in the pool for days, during which ammonia-type introductions occurred. This urine, sweat and decomposing organic matter produces ammonia compounds of chlorine, commonly called chloramines – the source of the odor and irritation. The good stuff, active free chlorine (HOCl), has neither odor nor irritating qualities. You usually can keep this active oxidizer and sanitizer busy maintaining the pool’s clarity and sanitation, while actually avoiding the chloramine development, simply by carefully holding a higher, not lower, residual of free chlorine.
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Pool water problem - combined chlorine (chloramines)

Pool Wizard

Chloramines are the result of insufficient free chlorine and usually result in a strong chlorine odor in and around the swimming pool. Chloramines are formed as a product of nitrogen and active chlorine (hypochlorous acid - HOCl). The nitrogen is most commonly introduced into the pool water as ammonia in the form of sweat and (unfortunately) urine.
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Putting the 'p' in pool: One in FIVE adults urinate in swimming pools (and it's not the chlorine that makes your eyes red)

The Daily Mail
  • Survey by Water Quality and Health Council reveals one in five adults urinate in swimming pools
  • Seven in ten also admit they don't shower before taking a dip
 
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SALUD: La sociedad científica Neumosur recomienda rigor en el control sanitario

Cloramina, el 'veneno' que se oculta en las piscinas

- Derivado del cloro, puede causar y agravar enfermedades respiratorias como el asma
- Se forma al mezclarse el cloro con compuestos orgánicos como el sudor y la orina
- Los niños de entre 6 y 7 años son los más expuestos porque tragan más agua
​
FRANCISCO JAVIER RECIO Sevilla
El Mundo, Andalucía, 06-08-2015
 
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